Curse

Keira Nightgale · Jun 19, 2009, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cebe

Yes. Buff to spirits. I believe that was my original point.

There's no need for you to reel off a list of Weapon Spell nerfs to prove a point I wasn't trying to make.

On the Weapon Spell topic, yes, I acknowledge they took a hit, and yes, maybe it's a Sly way of trying to force people into using Spawning Power. If it bothers people that much then I guess they will stop playing Ritualist. So what? Balance shouldn't just be about giving skills "Moar Powah". Let this be a lesson to those who get so firmly attached to their "uber builds" they lose the drive and creativity to work around the changes.

Too bad that Balance is not done by removing an option and giving players something that is slightly underpowered even by Ritualist's already low standards. Ritualist were already subpar, and still yesterday's ritualist were stronger than today's ones, all in all this was a bad update. The purpose wasn't to balance, they wanted to increase ritualists potency, they meant to give them a buff, they failed, they buffed spirits but it's a palliative , they ignored the main issue which is the reason why noone ever used spirits.

Directed also to the previous 2 posters (the one above your post).

Lhim · Jun 19, 2009, 03:16 PM // 15:16

it's a buff to spirits.
it's a slight nerf to weapon spells.

If you don't mind using spirits, great...more builds and options. (I think we all understand that concept....)
If you relied on weapon spells mostly, I can understand why some ppl feel it's not a great update for Rits. No need to start saying ppl should go delete their Rits. Everybody is entitled to their opinion.

Angel Killuminati · Jun 19, 2009, 03:17 PM // 15:17

It is about spirits now, trying to get people to actually use them. I just steamrolled a mission with another spirit spammer. We had roughly7 spirits in action constantly, with Summon Spirits to move them around. It just makes summoning spirits that little bit more fun, as you don't feel like an idiot, sitting around casting a spirit for 5 seconds!

Add armor of unfeeling, and my spirits survived a Ray of Judgement nuke, damage reaching just above half health! Can the same be said about NPC's in PVP? No.

The bottom line is, it makes Sprits actually feel as though they are helping your party...and you, because you don't take bloody 10 seconds+ to lay down a few spirits in total.

Einherj3r · Jun 19, 2009, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Ritualists are even more worthless in PvP now.

Keira Nightgale · Jun 19, 2009, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel Killuminati

It is about spirits now, trying to get people to actually use them. I just steamrolled a mission with another spirit spammer. We had roughly7 spirits in action constantly, with Summon Spirits to move them around. It just makes summoning spirits that little bit more fun, as you don't feel like an idiot, sitting around casting a spirit for 5 seconds!

Add armor of unfeeling, and my spirits survived a Ray of Judgement nuke, damage reaching just above half health! Can the same be said about NPC's in PVP? No.

The bottom line is, it makes Sprits actually feel as though they are helping your party...and you, because you don't take bloody 10 seconds+ to lay down a few spirits in total.

giving splinter weapon to a sin and a war while casting weapon of warding on a monk and using ancestor on demand while throwing in the random smite hex + passive buff on melee damage holds the same amount of boredoom and is was way more efficient.

Joseph Spiritmaster · Jun 19, 2009, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale

Too bad that Balance is not done by removing an option and giving players something that is slightly underpowered even by Ritualist's already low standards. Ritualist were already subpar, and still yesterday's ritualist were stronger than today's ones, all in all this was a bad update. The purpose wasn't to balance, they wanted to increase ritualists potency, they meant to give them a buff, they failed, they buffed spirits but it's a palliative , they ignored the main issue which is the reason why noone ever used spirits.

Directed also to the previous 2 posters (the one above your post).

I think that maybe everyone is looking at the update wrong, tbh. I believe they werent trying to buff rits and make them used more, but to make Spawning power more used... the buff was to the spawning line, 2% -> 4% but then they decreased the wep spells durations. Really it wasnt a nerf or a buff, just a transfer of attributes to the spawning power attribute line.

I am not completly upset with the update yet, with the spirit buffs I had about 3 builds in mind that were used a while ago, but now arnt used due to the long casting time of spirits/outdated/whatever. With the spirit update, now rits are back up and slowing starting to get back into the use of teh game. (Nahpui Quarter HM in 10 mins or so, with the new spirit buffs)

But thats just my opinionated 2 cents.

Einherj3r · Jun 19, 2009, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph Spiritmaster

I think that maybe everyone is looking at the update wrong, tbh. I believe they werent trying to buff rits and make them used more, but to make Spawning power more used... the buff was to the spawning line, 2% -> 4% but then they decreased the wep spells durations. Really it wasnt a nerf or a buff, just a transfer of attributes to the spawning power attribute line.

I am not completly upset with the update yet, with the spirit buffs I had about 3 builds in mind that were used a while ago, but now arnt used due to the long casting time of spirits/outdated/whatever. With the spirit update, now rits are back up and slowing starting to get back into the use of teh game. (Nahpui Quarter HM in 10 mins or so, with the new spirit buffs)

But thats just my opinionated 2 cents.

Making Spirits viable in that way is detrimental to gameplay and dumbs the class down. I could live with a 'token' spirit that had a 1second cast time and is very weak compared to proper spirits so you can get all the benefits from spirit supporting ritualist spells with it, but reducing the cast time by a ridiculous amount of time for every single spirit is ludicrous.
Unless they follow this update up with another big update on ritualist skills my ritualist will have to retire.

They acknowledged Spawning Power was underpowered. Then they buffed the effect Spawning Power had on weapon spells. Then they nerfed weapon spells. So Spawning Power wasnt buffed at all. It's more like a necessity now, not a benefit.

Keira Nightgale · Jun 19, 2009, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph Spiritmaster

I think that maybe everyone is looking at the update wrong, tbh. I believe they werent trying to buff rits and make them used more, but to make Spawning power more used... the buff was to the spawning line, 2% -> 4% but then they decreased the wep spells durations. Really it wasnt a nerf or a buff, just a transfer of attributes to the spawning power attribute line.

I am not completly upset with the update yet, with the spirit buffs I had about 3 builds in mind that were used a while ago, but now arnt used due to the long casting time of spirits/outdated/whatever. With the spirit update, now rits are back up and slowing starting to get back into the use of teh game. (Nahpui Quarter HM in 10 mins or so, with the new spirit buffs)

But thats just my opinionated 2 cents.

BUFF to spawning power>>>>2 to 4%
NERF to ritualist >>>> lower flexibility, need to put 8 or more in spawning to just get what you used to have, have to lower the usual spread

BUFF to spirits>>>>>>>> They are less of a pain
They ignored the real issue >>>>>>> they are boring, useless, and generally are subpar

By nerfing the alternative they made spirits more appealing, but again, only because they changed the alternative.
If this is just a step then it's okay, if this is their final stand on ritualists, then allow us to complain

Shadowmere · Jun 19, 2009, 04:13 PM // 16:13

not sure why you're flying off the bat about your resto/channel hybrids being broken...they're not. Ok so weapon spells lost a few seconds, I can honestly only think of maybe 2 weapon spells that would actually matter slightly too, last I checked everyone's staple wep spells were the ones that usually ended before their timer was up anyways.

And correct me if I'm wrong but I thought those weapon spells only lost 2-4 seconds of duration? if you've still got a high spec in the weapon spell's line spawning power is going to have a higher effect on it, and honestly you don't even need a very high spec in spawning to make up for the nerfs, drop like 1 point of channeling or restoration and put your extra points in spawning and poof! just like the "good ole' days"

As for spirits in PvE, I think people forget all the skills they've changed, Armor of Unfeeling can literally double the effective life of defensive spirits and given the many rit options to reduce ritual recharge I can honestly see running communing/restoration spirit support. AoU also makes offensive spirits nearly tank-like now, I can attest as well to the other person who said with this earlier, spirits can survive a direct RoJ bombardment while under the effects of Armor of Unfeeling.

As for damage there's some nice ways to boost spirit damage; Painful Bond, Signet of Ghostly Might (now with NO downsides), and Spiritleech Aura. What's better? You can pretty easily stack all those buffs and suddenly your spirits are hitting for nearly 50 damage per attack.

I really don't see how this update could be a bad thing for ritualists across the board; the hybrids you've more or less had no choice but to run for a long time to an extremely minor hit that really only effects a few skills in those builds and even then not in any significant way. And now spirit spamming is a real viable option for PvE.

Raudic · Jun 19, 2009, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

its a buff for rits, don't know how people can't see that

everyone agrees it was a bufff

but that it was somewhat of a fail buff

Airstu · Jun 19, 2009, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Reading FTW

Quote:

The Ritualist's primary attribute, Spawning Power, is a little underpowered and doesn't offer players enough of an incentive to play a primary Ritualist when they want to use weapon spells. We doubled Spawning Power's effect on weapon spells, an increase that should make it more appealing as a primary attribute and make the weapon spells of secondary Ritualists weaker in comparison. Ritualists use binding rituals to summon spirits which can either heal and protect, or deal damage and provide utility on the battlefield. The metered pace of building a base of spirits is balanced for PvP. In PvE, however, where the battlefield rapidly shifts ever forward, there is rarely time to establish a spirit base before the encounter is over and the party moves on, leaving the spirits behind. Drastically reducing the casting time of all binding rituals in PvE will give Ritualists ample time to summon spirits to each encounter. Also, the increase to the maximum level of spirits will help them survive longer during encounters.

Run spawning power to extend out weapon spells. Im sorry you may actually have to think about how to manage that.

Lishy · Jun 19, 2009, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Would be nice if they re-increased all weapon spell durations. Not it's too low....
Besides that, spirits are great in PvE now!

Anet is probably taking this slowly. They will probably work more on rits and paras next month. Hence why certain aspects of the professions were not re-worked or given serious re-works. Take motivation for example.

Jarus · Jun 19, 2009, 05:13 PM // 17:13

I do bloody hope that ritualists haven't seen the last of these updates. I am quite happy about the buff that spirits got, but the spawning power 'buff' wasn't really a buff at all.

I don't like being niched, and this update made me feel niched. At least it's fun to be in that niche, but it's still a niche.

Verene · Jun 19, 2009, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Personally, I tried running a Channeling/Resto hybrid before on my Rit...and I hated it. Support is not my thing. It's boring, it's nitpicky, and I just can't stand it. I'd rather give a hero a few weapon spells and let them do it.

So I've always had my Rit set up as a spirit spammer with a few offensive spells. Sure, it was annoying having to take so long to set up my spirits, though even pre-nerf if I was able to get them all up before running into a fight, I never had all of them die before the fight ended (unless I was stupid and cast them in the same stop and they got RoJ'd). Before being level 20, even.

Now, though? Last night, just after the update, I took my Rit and did Vizunah Square. Ran around filling up the battlefield with spirits. The person from the other side had an MM hero. Between my spirits and the other person's MM, it went much easier and quicker than any other time I've done this mission, even when my friend and I did it from opposite sides and both had an MM hero.

I love the buff. I love using spirits. I find it far more fun than the hybrid builds, and I'm glad I can do so efficiently now.

TheDarkshineKnight · Jun 19, 2009, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Einherj3r

Ritualists are even more worthless in PvP now.

If by worthless you mean absolutely necessary. Unlike PvE, Necros and Eles don't have infinite energy, so, having a longer lasting weapon spell becomes much, much more important. Expect Ritualists to be used in GvG and HA again.

Einherj3r · Jun 19, 2009, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkshineKnight

If by worthless you mean absolutely necessary. Unlike PvE, Necros and Eles don't have infinite energy, so, having a longer lasting weapon spell becomes much, much more important. Expect Ritualists to be used in GvG and HA again.

And waste points on Spawning Power in order to get that?
Also, Ether Prism is still pretty good energy management.
The least problem of E/Rts is going to be the energy cost of rit weapons.

TheDarkshineKnight · Jun 19, 2009, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Einherj3r

And waste points on Spawning Power in order to get that?
Also, Ether Prism is still pretty good energy management.
The least problem of E/Rts is going to be the energy cost of rit weapons.

Drop Resto or Channeling by 1 and you're pretty much set. It's not a wasted investment.

Einherj3r · Jun 19, 2009, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkshineKnight

Drop Resto or Channeling by 1 and you're pretty much set. It's not a wasted investment.

What do you intend to replace Ether Prism with?

Hugh Manatee · Jun 19, 2009, 06:52 PM // 18:52

The only thing they did wrong in the update was to not somehow tie the new, reduced casting times of spirits to spawning(like a clause for each spirit" for every 3 ranks of spawning this binding ritual casts 33% faster" or something, so as to keep the new spirits out of the hands of necroes and eles ect). Maybe they could have knocked up the weapon spell duration buff to 5% or 6%...

On the PvE side, rits are becoming a bit more 'necro' like with their skillset now, instead of exploiting corpses for volume and energy, we get to summon fewer, stronger turrets without the corpses, then exploit those for energy damage or healing as we see fit.

It is a buff to these so called 'hybrid' builds too. Less time spent casting a spirit is time I could be casting resto or channeling support. Instead of setting up a spirit and dragging it along to effect the first half of a fight, I can still set up shop beforehand, drag it along with summon, and now I have the option to re-cast in the middle of a fight(effectively doubling the use of a slot dedicated to a spirit). Stopping your damage or healing to cast a 3-5 second long spirit used to be moronic, now with the 3/4-1 sec cast times I can drop at will, and move on. Who cares if it's 'mindless'(which i do dispute). Technically so is going full on MM, but necroes have that option, now rits have the option to go full on rit lord, or pack a couple spirits, and some stuff that exploits those spirits, like an MM can take a few offesive/supportive skills instead of 4 minions, death nova and BotM.

Also, with the new armor of unfeeling, the old soul twist, rit lord, or the new recaim essense, or that old broken standard AP, communing just might be viable in PvE. I've already tested out the channeling turrets, they're like a minion wall, I had them on a bridge, and on corners, HM stuff was getting hung up on them, nuking, AoEing, and still not killing them with AoU and Summon spirits. If I were to attempt keeping them out of harms way with summon, hell... communing resto might finally be slightly on par with heal/prot, but balanced for a party wide scale.

Then there's the brokenness of Signet of Spirits, this one alone, even after they nerf it to the 20 sec recharge it's supposed to be at, is going to make all those spawning "do X with this spirit" or "do X when a spirit is created" skills worth taking. 3 Conditions, something like 150ish health, thats like better then the old protective was kaolai(and you can still pack kaolai and run restoration stuff that runs on spirits inclucind something that will bust 3 conditions minimum, and be getting +15 energy free, 3 wanding meat shields, just freaking epic...)

Signet of Spirits
Boon of Creation
Spirits Gift
Protective was Kaolai
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit light
Spirit Transfer/Feast of souls
Your favorite weapon spell(i like vengeful for pve), an additional spirit(life, recup, rejuve) or maybe siphon spirit(you get 3 to siphon off of with similar returns to offering of spirit, but every 3 seconds, and refreshed every 20... it's almost like SR....)

Winterclaw · Jun 19, 2009, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

The only thing they did wrong in the update was to not somehow tie the new, reduced casting times of spirits to spawning(like a clause for each spirit" for every 3 ranks of spawning this binding ritual casts 33% faster" or something, so as to keep the new spirits out of the hands of necroes and eles ect). Maybe they could have knocked up the weapon spell duration buff to 5% or 6%...

That would be too good for anet to pull off.

Anyways, I'm kind of happy with the PvE update, PvP is always trickier to do.